to use that as a reason to use the debt ceiling as a weapon is really playing with fire. they say pay some bills and not pay others. we've never tried that before. >> host: is it feasible? >> guest: i don't think so. which bills? social security? veterans? people out fighting for this country? which bills do you pay? we never tried that. i think the president put it so well. this is not a debt beat nation, really, and i think common sense is likely to prevail within the republican ranks. i know, if i might say so, if not firsthand, second hand, that the leadership within the house republican caucus, not all of it, i think some of it realizes that the potential consequences. >> host: if president obama won, so to speak on the fiscal cliff deal and got taxes increase, able to get new revenue, then why not, as democrats, agree to some spending cuts that republicans want? >> guest: well, the president made clear that there has to be, in terms of what's coming, there has to be a mixture, a balance between cuts and revenues. in terms of the sequester, we're going to have to hav